tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6609536178570975752.post2526977902008986090..comments2024-01-12T00:32:20.149-08:00Comments on The Overhead Wire: Begin the BeginPantograph Trolleypolehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17833159138533550544noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6609536178570975752.post-61855099936427788742009-07-29T00:16:17.008-07:002009-07-29T00:16:17.008-07:00Pedestrianist: Geary at least is lucky with the to...Pedestrianist: Geary at least is lucky with the topography between Laguna and Fillmore (or the existing ramp west of Fillmore can be reused). And even with normal topography portals aren't so obtrusive (at least not in Boston). From the point of view of tradeoffs of the metro and streetcar segments on a line, I think there's some unavoidable compromises there, but you can do pretty well before you run into those. Frequent core service vs. sparser service on surface segments has two easy solutions: either funnel a number of surface lines into a single subway, or run a dedicated shuttle for just the subway (like the Muni Metro's S train). The dedicated shuttle plus careful dispatching can help mitigate propagation of delays, as can building the line with excess capacity and using streetcar tricks like double-berthing at stations or coupling trains for the run through the subway to get extra capacity.<br /><br />As for preparing for the future, Boston actually built at least one of their Green Line portals with an elevated ramp in a trench, so that an extension could be constructed with minimal disruption. Another option is if you have a subway with island platforms and thus a pair of tubes, the ramp to the surface would be between where the extensions of the tubes would go, allowing for a pretty seamless connection when the time comes to extend.crzwdjkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06394805356595604336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6609536178570975752.post-22255628395293704692009-07-28T16:08:18.485-07:002009-07-28T16:08:18.485-07:00@Arcady regarding surface/subway lines.
I agree t...@Arcady regarding surface/subway lines.<br /><br />I agree that there are a number of corridors in SF that would seem suited to a surface/subway line, and of course every Muni Metro line we have acts like that.<br /><br />What are your thoughts on the delays that spread from the surface segment to the subway and vice-versa?<br /><br />How do you reconcile the more frequent service needed in the subway core without wasting resources on the surface segments?<br /><br />Also, I think portals in the middle of the street can be ugly :-) Not every major transit corridor is lucky enough to have the topography of West Portal at right about the same point you'd naturally want to switch from subway to surface.<br /><br />And how can we best prepare these lines for the point in the future where it becomes necessary to move the portal farther out down the line - after growth has expanded the boundaries of the core?Pedestrianisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03067236246319422235noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6609536178570975752.post-29364237847804397542009-07-28T13:47:08.291-07:002009-07-28T13:47:08.291-07:00Thanks for your input regarding my map, guys! A mo...Thanks for your input regarding my map, guys! A more acceptable place for commenting, however, would be on a blog, if I had one. ;(<br /><br />About the suggestions, yes, I am currently working out all things. I would sure like to send the O-Train to the airport, but I don't yet have everything worked out. See this in the note I just added as an update. I still wish they hadn't closed down Union Station downtown. That would make my city look not as good as it should be.<br /><br />Thanks for commenting!<br /><br />Matt J. FisherMatt Fishernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6609536178570975752.post-47701266718951906672009-07-28T12:25:18.765-07:002009-07-28T12:25:18.765-07:00Matt, turning the transitway into a light rail lin...Matt, turning the transitway into a light rail line is a no brainer, though Ottawa also need regional and intercity train service restored to Union Station beside the Rideau Centre.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6609536178570975752.post-83004407679501310092009-07-28T10:56:59.387-07:002009-07-28T10:56:59.387-07:00Matt Fisher,
Any reason you don't extend the ...Matt Fisher,<br /><br />Any reason you don't extend the O-Train to the airport? Seems like that would be a mighty fine idea...Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04201418442720155614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6609536178570975752.post-17375330643818144072009-07-28T08:58:12.050-07:002009-07-28T08:58:12.050-07:00The Great Society Subway is a book about the Washi...<i>The Great Society Subway</i> is a book about the Washington Metro, which I assume is what is being referred to here. People love to compare BART to it, because the two systems have roughly the same total extent, with WMATA having about twice as many stations and 2.5 times more ridership.crzwdjkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06394805356595604336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6609536178570975752.post-89401718134131345002009-07-28T08:32:20.117-07:002009-07-28T08:32:20.117-07:00It does seem like SF currently either gets one or ...It does seem like SF currently either gets one or the other: overpriced heavy rail that takes forever to build, and is built on lower-priority corridors, or BRT that gets built where rail transit should. As in BART to SFO, and eventually BART to Warm Springs (where it seems an improvement of CalTrain would be more effective), and the proposed BRT for Van Ness and Geary.<br /><br />I agree more with arcady, SF seems more suited for a stadt-bahn-esque network, with light rail in the extremities, and a metro in the center; most especially since BART has sort've confused the whole situation by not being a true metro, but more of metro/commuter-rail.<br /><br />But here again I do agree with you, something similar to the Great Society subways needs to be started, if nothing else, then a better system of Federally funding entire light rail systems (since light rail seems to be the thriving form of rail transit these days, not heavy rail). But we as a country need to do something to enable the dreamers, who think of what could be, not what "probably" will be.<br /><br />P.S. What were the subway systems that are considered "Great Society"? DC, Atlanta, SF, Miami?Matthewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04645045124804305825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6609536178570975752.post-65236215587133986772009-07-28T07:56:56.549-07:002009-07-28T07:56:56.549-07:00I think a subway-surface system is actually a pret...I think a subway-surface system is actually a pretty good idea for San Francisco. Outside of the central core, it doesn't quite have the density to justify a full metro, and it's not exactly a big city so speed is not as much of an issue, and at-grade systems can be plenty fast. San Jose's light rail covers the 7 miles from Civic Center to Old Ironsides in 23 minutes. And San Francisco is just 7 miles across. I think it might make sense to have a pair of subway-surface light rail networks, one in SF, one in Oakland, linked by a new Transbay Tube.crzwdjkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06394805356595604336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6609536178570975752.post-16763433911713780732009-07-28T07:19:12.579-07:002009-07-28T07:19:12.579-07:00You're not seeking to wage "mode wars&quo...You're not seeking to wage "mode wars", Matt, just suggesting that people who propose BRT for anything are insufficiently deferential to rail?<br /><br />Seriously?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6609536178570975752.post-72501258431633688852009-07-28T06:03:27.550-07:002009-07-28T06:03:27.550-07:00There is no reason why we should continue to rejec...There is no reason why we should continue to reject rail primarily on the basis of costs. Note that I don't say rail should go everywhere, and am not seeking to wage "mode wars". Oh, by the way, what I said above was just my opinion. :)Matt Fishernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6609536178570975752.post-64214091336154263522009-07-28T05:59:33.767-07:002009-07-28T05:59:33.767-07:00Excellent!
"Excellent." - Mr. Burns
An...Excellent!<br /><br />"Excellent." - Mr. Burns<br /><br />And on Google Maps, this is <a href="http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=101996212121253487336.00046eaae108ae222cb98&z=11" rel="nofollow">my map</a> showing what the O-Train should be like. This short term mentality, I will say, justified the Transitway here, as well as the busways in Pittsburgh and Los Angeles, to name a few examples.<br /><br />This is, indeed, at the same time they promise that BRT will eventually be converted to rail, but give almost no regard as to the objectives, and only appear to be vaguely hinting at the idea.Matt Fishernoreply@blogger.com