tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6609536178570975752.post8914750896413309685..comments2024-01-12T00:32:20.149-08:00Comments on The Overhead Wire: Guest Post: Remove the Wire NoosePantograph Trolleypolehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17833159138533550544noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6609536178570975752.post-87123722997384738722009-07-03T07:59:14.276-07:002009-07-03T07:59:14.276-07:00The appearance of the wire is not the biggest prob...The appearance of the wire is not the biggest problem (although it is a big enough one that Alstom, Bombardier, Kawasaki, Shanghai Sunwin Bus and TIG/m have all developed wireless streetcars.<br /><br />The big problem is the $4.5 million (per LTK Engineering) to $6 million (Charlotte Area Transit System) per mile of track to build.<br /><br />Embarking on a new overhead electrification project when hydrogen buses are in use around the world and wireless hydrolleys have only 1/7 of the buses' rolling friction is not a reasonable risk to accept.Stanhttp://www.hydrail.org/docs/5_program.pdfnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6609536178570975752.post-54512307750816678382009-04-18T22:11:00.000-07:002009-04-18T22:11:00.000-07:00Higher voltage can solve the wire thickness proble...Higher voltage can solve the wire thickness problem to a point, but cable wear is a problem, as is supporting the required tension. Existing magnetic inductive coupling systems are inherently less efficient and tend to require much tighter tolerances. Personally I find a potholey uncrossably wide street filled with cars far more ugly than a piece of wire, but I'm not American so I'm weird.njhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15278712220761294549noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6609536178570975752.post-36495691299217594962009-04-18T06:11:00.000-07:002009-04-18T06:11:00.000-07:00Bombardier has a catenary-free system (PRIMOVE Cat...Bombardier has a catenary-free system (PRIMOVE Catenary-Free Technology) where it electric supply components are invisible, hidden under the vehicle and beneath the track. See http://www.bombardier.com/en/transportation/sustainability/technology/primove-catenary-free-operation?docID=0901260d800486ab for better information. There are data sheets and a video at that site.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6609536178570975752.post-84915395265510820172009-04-17T08:07:00.000-07:002009-04-17T08:07:00.000-07:00This prohibition that happened didn't even allow t...This prohibition that happened didn't even allow trolleybuses. While it's possible APS could work elsewhere, it's only been half a decade in use, and I don't know how APS can work regarding ice, snow, and rain.<br /><br />Furthermore, the overhead wires that rail/bus electrification opponents are always complaining about that they consider to be "visual pollution" aren't that terrifying.<br /><br />Here's a simple difference in terms of wires: A trolleybus has two overhead wires; electrified rail using an overhead wire has only one.Matt Fishernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6609536178570975752.post-45058583470161859802009-04-17T03:49:00.000-07:002009-04-17T03:49:00.000-07:00For those interested in overhead wire contact syst...For those interested in overhead wire contact systems, TCRP has an excellent report about designing them for low visual impact <A HREF="http://www.tcrponline.org/bin/search.pl?keyword=overhead+contact&go=Search" REL="nofollow">here</A>.<br /><br />I like an idea I've seen floating around where the wires are only put up on straight street lengths without intersections. On-board batteries can propel the cars in between overhead wire segments. This helps reduce the visual impact because intersections and curves are much "bulkier" than straight segments.<br /><br />The folks most involved with advocating for DC streetcars blog at <A HREF="http://streetcars4dc.org/" REL="nofollow">Streetcars4DC</A>.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15057113283154126104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6609536178570975752.post-17555201157413823882009-04-15T12:20:00.000-07:002009-04-15T12:20:00.000-07:00DC born/raised I can attest the conduit system was...DC born/raised I can attest the conduit system was a disaster in snow/salt times. Basicly streetcar service came to a halt.david vartanoffnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6609536178570975752.post-21007425730707081552009-04-15T10:01:00.000-07:002009-04-15T10:01:00.000-07:00Hm, I do suspect snow and salt would be problems f...Hm, I do suspect snow and salt would be problems for the APS system. Potentially fatal ones, once you realize that salty snow is actually quite conductive. As for wires, a streetcar could probably get away with much lighter gauge wire than interurban-style light rail, because there's no need to support three-car trains. Lighter wire also means fewer and lighter support spans, and thus the visual impact can be kept fairly low. Using a pantograph also means that you need less precise positioning of the wire on curves, so you can have fewer support wires there too.crzwdjkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06394805356595604336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6609536178570975752.post-13066444561827141742009-04-15T10:00:00.000-07:002009-04-15T10:00:00.000-07:00As a former DC resident now living in San Francisc...As a former DC resident now living in San Francisco, I can say that even our new home city's fairly visible overheard wires are much more welcome than the exhaust of a city bus. I bike all over San Francisco, just as I biked all over DC when I lived there. The best thing about biking in San Francisco (aside from the scenery) is the fact that I'm no longer inhaling soot from diesel buses, and I know the streetcar beside me isn't going to suddenly veer into my lane.Chris Carneynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6609536178570975752.post-88297923993854774972009-04-15T06:31:00.000-07:002009-04-15T06:31:00.000-07:00I agree that the wires should be allowed, but I ha...I agree that the wires should be allowed, but I have yet to see an "almost invisible" one.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15388615060405992105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6609536178570975752.post-18134471366330571852009-04-15T06:17:00.000-07:002009-04-15T06:17:00.000-07:00I thought the problem with underground power was t...I thought the problem with underground power was that all the road salt corrodes the electrical systems.monkeyroticahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13355548198970624797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6609536178570975752.post-4922675334568110352009-04-15T03:33:00.000-07:002009-04-15T03:33:00.000-07:00I've already talked to the staff of Congressman Ji...I've already talked to the staff of Congressman Jim Moran (D-VA), he's ready to start helping, but wants to know that DC's government actually wants the change. I recommend writing to Jim Graham, chairman of the committee on public works and transportation for DC, as well as the Mayor and the director of DDOT to encourage them to ask congress for the change.<br /><br />Michael Perkins<br />Greater Greater WashingtonMichaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15057113283154126104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6609536178570975752.post-87101644269906718162009-04-15T01:04:00.000-07:002009-04-15T01:04:00.000-07:00Alstom has said they are not bringing APS to the U...Alstom has said they are not bringing APS to the United States and Bombardier doesn't seem to be offering theirs up anytime soon. These systems are also going to cost more, why not just use the system you can build now instead of hoping for a technology fix that probably isn't coming in the next decade.Pantograph Trolleypolehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17833159138533550544noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6609536178570975752.post-29288114495696155332009-04-15T00:10:00.000-07:002009-04-15T00:10:00.000-07:00umm ... Both Alstom and Bombardier now offer syste...umm ... Both Alstom and Bombardier now offer systems that use in-ground power supplies <br /><br />Alstom's APS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alimentation_par_SolGordon Wernernoreply@blogger.com