tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6609536178570975752.post551372731279574200..comments2024-01-12T00:32:20.149-08:00Comments on The Overhead Wire: Streetcar WatchPantograph Trolleypolehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17833159138533550544noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6609536178570975752.post-48364753796021372402007-09-12T07:35:00.000-07:002007-09-12T07:35:00.000-07:00Good idea - I have done so from my end, obviously....Good idea - I have done so from my end, obviously. The thing I forgot to rebut was the circulator argument as well - bolting a streetcar circulator on to a growing rail system which can stand on its own feet already is an unquestionably good idea (since streetcar capacity is, as you note, higher than bus). But using it by itself (which is what almost all of the cities you mention are doing) isn't going to get you those circulation benefits (because people will not use streetcar as the primary form of transportation, which means that in those cities, they drove to work today, and thus don't _NEED_ a circulator).M1EKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12041791804881707751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6609536178570975752.post-87141454292577184712007-09-11T17:23:00.000-07:002007-09-11T17:23:00.000-07:00I'll write up a new post so we can keep this discu...I'll write up a new post so we can keep this discussion going. It'll keep me and others honest and perhaps be a better back and forth than anyone could have with the mindless opposition of the Skaggs/O'Toole set. I will make the point that this post was just a round up of streetcar news but you kinda made a mountain out of a mole hill. But some of your points from your post today will be discussed...might not be today but soon.Pantograph Trolleypolehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17833159138533550544noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6609536178570975752.post-3926473361105763292007-09-11T06:16:00.000-07:002007-09-11T06:16:00.000-07:00LRT can control signals - streetcar could, but won...LRT can control signals - streetcar could, but won't. That's one big win on streets like Manor. Reserved guideway would be the big win on Congress.<BR/><BR/>As for "used as circulator" - yes, I'm glad we agree that they provide no additional utility for commuters. The problem is that nobody else is hearing this statement -- it's being sold here as a distributor for commuter rail AND as some kind of commuter line itself; NOT as a lunchtime happy-fun circulator.<BR/><BR/>If you want to pitch Jim Skaggs softballs, keep pushing streetcars. The argument versus buses is so trivially easy for him to win (in a city where the economic development argument is moot, like here in Austin).M1EKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12041791804881707751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6609536178570975752.post-65126267394293622092007-09-10T09:42:00.000-07:002007-09-10T09:42:00.000-07:00Streetcars aren't for commuting. That is where yo...Streetcars aren't for commuting. That is where you get it wrong. Rapid streetcar maybe which can have a dedicated ROW. But these lines in Arkansas, Portland, and even Kenosha are circulators. Their main purpose is not line haul operation. Also, buses don't attract passengers at the same density as streetcars for this circulator function and can't handle them. We've had this argument before. Portland's streetcar passenger density could not be handled by buses. It's a crush load whenever I'm there. And believe me, they aren't all tourists.<BR/><BR/>Also, you get it wrong with the speed attribute. DSK has it right, streetcars along with trolley buses with their electric power usage have much much faster acceleration. Another thing is that where the streetcar alignment is now in Austin, where is the traffic aside from Congress? I'm not going to defend the alignment because its bad, but if you say stuck in traffic, where are the choke points going to be? I used to run down trinity every morning to town lake on runs, there was nothing in those parallel blocks to suggest traffic would have any more impact on operations of a streetcar versus dedicated guideway. <BR/><BR/>And with federal funding as it is, what cities are going to build LRT for 40-70 million per mile without federal funding? It's disappearing and you'll have to wait 10 years to get your money and right now its looking like they are forcing downgrades to BRT. I know you want light rail, but until we change the funding mechanism at the federal level, good luck getting money for it if you're a smaller city looking to start out with rail.Pantograph Trolleypolehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17833159138533550544noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6609536178570975752.post-42916462090876856482007-09-10T08:41:00.000-07:002007-09-10T08:41:00.000-07:00Again with the overselling of the streetcar. Guys,...Again with the overselling of the streetcar. Guys, in areas which need a spur to redevelop, it sure can have some benefit, but it has <A HREF="http://mdahmus.monkeysystems.com/blog/archives/000437.html" REL="nofollow">exactly zero benefits otherwise to the daily commuter</A> - and if you oversell it, people will discover this, and there'll be a backlash.<BR/><BR/>You run the risk of throwing out the baby (true LRT) with the bathwater (stuck-in-traffic streetcar).M1EKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12041791804881707751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6609536178570975752.post-8934072902948627232007-09-10T00:29:00.000-07:002007-09-10T00:29:00.000-07:00My question is are they really going to build comm...My question is are they really going to build commuter rail or is it going to actually be light rail? I've seen it used a few ways where people say commuter rail but they really seem to mean light rail. Any insight Dave?<BR/><BR/>Also, will Mr. Walker ever relinquish his dream of everyone owning a car in Milwaukee?Pantograph Trolleypolehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17833159138533550544noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6609536178570975752.post-18702845327587711852007-09-09T21:27:00.000-07:002007-09-09T21:27:00.000-07:00The Madison plan is more on hold than dead to see ...The Madison plan is more on hold than dead to see if they can get commuter rail through first.... Further there is a streetcar plan for Milwaukee, WI that's under considertion as well.Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15689928015042507584noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6609536178570975752.post-90678989135808455212007-09-09T19:25:00.000-07:002007-09-09T19:25:00.000-07:00And Madison, WI just killed their proposed streetc...And Madison, WI just killed their proposed streetcar. Never underestimate the stupidity of massed intellectuals.kenfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08276884726616782475noreply@blogger.com