Thursday, December 11, 2008

Forgetting Something?

It would be a nicer Transbay Terminal and more like Grand Central if when it opened it actually connected to some rail lines. Platforms deep under the are nice, but shouldn't they have reason to hold passengers? Perhaps a new subway line? Caltrain Extension? HSR? Here's a Fantasy Map I've shown before. The biggest white dot is the Transbay Terminal site.

10 comments:

arcady said...

Isn't the Caltrain extension part of the project? Though of course that requires electrification first, and that's now in some doubt thanks to Santa Clara County's Measure B.

Rhywun said...

The Caltrain extension is "Phase Two" which, like all Phase Twos, will never happen.

Count Z said...

Why not build the Geary line as pure BART and graft it to the Peninsula tracks at Daly City via 19th Avenue? That way that stupidly expensive BART extension to the Peninsula actually does something about the traffic on 19th Avenue.

Alon Levy said...

Why does your Geary line have this curve before it turns south under the park?

Pantograph Trolleypole said...

I imagine it doesn't have to be that big a curve Alon, but its basically to get up to the Veterans Hospital before turning south.

Alon Levy said...

In that case, it might be better to split the line into two branches, one running to the Veterans' Hospital and another turning south under 19th, replacing the 19th/N line in your map. Since the Geary line hogs the second tube, having just one western branch implies that the Geary corridor deserves 2-minute subway service for its entire length.

arcady said...

An interesting idea for Geary would be to have a four track subway, with two tracks for BART and two tracks for the Muni Metro, with the BART line having stops every two miles, and Muni having stops every half mile, and easy cross-platform transfers where possible. Or just standardize on a single subway-surface system for SF, the East Bay, and maybe even Marin and San Mateo counties.

As for the traffic on 19th Avenue, I do wonder, how much of is that actually due to thru traffic between Marin and the Peninsula?

Anonymous said...

Ok so this thread is way off the original topic.

A Geary line that splits seems like a good idea. So does a Geary line with express and local service. How about this:

NYC style 4 tracks standard (not wide like BART; cheaper this way) that run from Transbay Terminal to a subway station near Park Presidio in the Richmond. Then the tracks split (presumably one goes south thru the park, the other west to the VA), all trains make all stops. Time the trains to meet at Park Presidio the way BART trains meet at MacArthur, so local and express passengers can switch as needed.

Thoughts?

Alon Levy said...

It sounds a lot like the original subway in New York. I'm all for this, as long as the area is rezoned and replanned for the same densities as in Upper Manhattan. If it's not, then four tracks is too much. New York has just three four-track mainlines for Uptown Manhattan and the Bronx, which have a total population of 2.2 million.

arcady said...

Crunching the numbers further, it seems that, assuming a decent running speed for surface rail, a subway extending past Fillmore will at best save people 5-8 minutes, which means on average it will save 2-4 minutes. The extra time to walk down the stairs reduces this even further, and I'm not sure the expense is particularly justified. On the other hand, the inner part of the line should be built as subway, since even if the whole of Geary St were taken for a surface line, I doubt that they would get any acceptable signal priority in the dense street grid east of Laguna. Fillmore just happens to be a convenient place to start the tunnel, since there's already a ramp there.